I was a pastor for 25 years. I pastored three churches in Pensacola, FL, Macon, GA, and York, SC. I was in York for 20 years. God was good, we had formed a really good fellowship and one I believe was solidly biblical. We never grew over the 100 mark. We would have more than that in our annual Vacation Bible School (!) but not in our Sunday services.
I have friends who pastor larger churches. One friend, Hal Mayer in Tampa, FL (he is the one who married us way back when), pastors a church with over 400 people. I don’t know how he does it.
Two of the prominent influences in my ministry and pastoral “style” were Richard Baxter (The Reformed Pastor) and Jay Adams (Shepherding God's Flock - A Handbook on Pastoral Ministry). I was never as good, effective or efficient as them but I tried to model this approach. It was a very personal, shepherding approach. I tried to regularly visit all those who attended the church - to visit them in their homes, to visit them at work, and to have them in our home. If they ever had to be in the hospital, I would be with them before surgery and then sat with the family in the waiting room until they were in recovery. Of course, if there was a death, I would be with them at the hospital, in the home, at the funeral, and afterwards. I would be up early to meet them at the hospital, up late at night at the hospital, sometimes be with them all night at the hospital. One man was in ICU for several months and I was there to see him every day.
How do you do that in a large church? I’m not criticizing pastors of large churches. Or finding any fault with them. I just don’t know how they do it.
While I was in York, I was one of the three longest serving pastors there. The other two, Wallace Tinsley of Filbert Presbyterian Church and Tony Grant of the Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church, are still there. I know Mr. Tinsley had the same pastoral “style.” Neither one of us would have been physically able to pastor a church of 400+ people! How do they do it?
I was trying to shepherd these folks, and love them with the love of God. In the beginning, I disliked standing at the door after the service and shaking hands with everyone as they left. One day the Lord ministered to me that I was to love on the people as they left. So I did. I would greet everyone before the service, then stand in the back after and talk to them some more. I would love on the children and the young people. These were “my people.”
I heard once about a pastor of a small church who didn’t even know the names of the young people in the church. I thought that was terrible. I knew their names, what they did, who they liked and more. I was always asking/harassing them about their t-shirts and the slogans on them: What is that? What does that mean? Really? I would talk to them, joke with them, play catch in the parking lot with them, challenge them. Drive them to church and back home. And on the way home often ask one of my famous “philosophical questions” which we would then discuss.
I suppose I had learned from Mr. Bomar way back in Bible College, “They don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care.” God had filled my heart with love for these folks and I wanted them to know I cared.
Now, am I blowing my own horn? Trust me, I have no horn to blow. Am I suggesting that pastors like my friend Hal aren’t doing a good job? No way. Am I secretly suggesting that my method of pastoring was better than whatever method they have? Absolutely not. What am I saying then? Simply this, I’ve been thinking about it lately and I don’t know how they do it. With the pastoral “style” I had, I would not know how to be the pastor of a large church.
Jeff
ReplyDeleteGreat transparency in this post. Let me give you a few thoughts
I have pastored in all sizes of churches from 0 (church plant) to being one of the pastors at 2 mega churches (over 2500 attending each weekend). The Church I pastor now- I do not consider to be large (www.churchatthebay.com). I do not fault your style of ministry. However, I decided years ago that God decides the size of a church not me- so if people are coming to Faith in Jesus I like it no matter what size the church is. I also decided that if I were not careful my leadership style would limit the size of a church. Some say BIG is BAD- others say Small is BAD. I believe both are wrong. I believe effective is good. The church in Acts boomed and they made a decision early on that they couldn’t do it all- so they enlisted leaders who were full of the Holy Spirit who could help them. Ephesians 4 also says that my job is equipping the saints to do the “work of ministry” not do “all” the work of ministry. I believe healthy churches grow- in my community there are over 800,000 people far from God. My church will not reach all of them- but- I cannot lead my church to be content with a holy huddle. I know some will throw rocks at my philosophy because I am “all about the numbers”. But, I am grown- I have been around the block a time or two and I am very interested in kicking a “huge dent in Hell” in Tampa and the world. So we talk a lot about the priority of reaching people far from God, we sponsor and orphanage in Haiti and we have helped start 5 churches. I don’t believe bigger or smaller is better- I believe better is better. So to your question after my brief sermon- “How do we do it all”- I don’t do it all and have never tried to. I do equip leaders to do it all. Is it perfect… nope- not as long as I am involved! I see the huge danger of a bunch of “older brothers” (story of the prodigal) today who want us to focus on them. Every time I read Luke 15 I remember priority. Besides, I have discovered real discipleship happens as people start helping friends trust Christ and grow. I think our westernized Christian style of discipleship (content instead of life change focus) has hamstrung our churches. Now I am upset Jeff- you made me write more than 3 sentences. A final word- people far from God know how to throw great parties!
Hal Mayer
One of several pastors at Church at the Bay
I wrote a very long response and very good and my own blog ate it!!!
ReplyDeleteSince I don't want large men mad at me (not having a disarming "Apple" smile) and since you have to speak slowly for those whose thinking is slowed by the warm Florida sun :-) let me make a few things clear(er)
ReplyDelete-I was not "doing it all" I was describing how I went about doing what I did do
-we also had discipleship and "equipping of the saints" going on. I had a good team of brothers and sisters (elders, deacons and deaconesses)
-I was in no way comparing large and small churches, much less making a judgment (small is good, big is bad...)
-I didn't know you were "all about numbers" I thought you were about people; now I am going to have to reconsider my high opinion of you :-)
-really, this is my blog so it was way more about me than about you! My point was, the way I went about pastoring would obviously not work in a church of 400, so I literally would not know how to do it. I am impressed, you do know.
-finally about parties, I am waiting for the BIG one: "And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined. And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it. And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation."
Jeffery
ReplyDeleteBro- I love your heart. I did not think you were judging me or bigger churches or anything. I guess I was more defensive than I thought ;-). More than a couple of times I have had the discussion I thought you were talking about- oops! That is why I only write short stuff or try to- because so much of communication is not words (like 93%). So forgive my sermonizing- love you bro. And you should be afraid - be very afraid! lol
I've been thinking about the need to be afraid. My first thought was, "Nah, he'd never come up here." But then I realized, you only work on Sunday and not every Sunday at that (!) so I better quake in my flip flops a little :-)
ReplyDelete